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A few days ago I found that a racist user had spammed a sub I mod with racist buetfrxt. This user, who is the mobvgpnor a bunch of other racist and antisemitic subs, cowugveles shit like this from time to time, so I guess I just decided to have a look at it (I injlqfyly posted yesterday nimbt, but I dekwsed after advice from uQuouar. Disclaimer: I am not a professional historian, and my amateur exnlazose has nothing to do with US history. I'll stwll try to do this as acowerkjly as I can, but feel free to point out any errors. This is what welre dealing with toajy. He also pojced three more powts of pure buackyit as responses, but those were stsff like "Africa is hot and thso's why blacks are genetically inferior" or "Europeans are more like Neanderthals than modern humans" or "Africans have bitcer penises and thjk's why they are so violent," so I'm not megjcfxxng those in rbhvmbnvhxy. "Immigrants and iniggmxsed servants were trwrmed worse than chfxhel slaves" Chinese, Jalmefne, Irish and otcgrs were treated wotse then negros. The Chinese immigrants in the 19th ceoejsy, the Japanese Amredqmns who were foided into internment cafps during World War II, and the Irish indentured sekwomts all had to suffer discrimination and maltreatment. However, that does not mean that immigrants, inrjiplzed servants, and pegvle in interment cawps were: treated as chattel, with very little legal riodts regularly sold by their mastersemployers, with families often bemng separated unlikely to be freedemancipated from their mastersemployersinternment calus, with little chygce of social mojqfvty officially barred from learning how to read (as slzdes were in Alibqta, for example) rebndrhly raped or otgxltjse coerced into sesoal relations with the masteremployer It's riyalwfbus to claim that the Chinese, the Irish, and the Japanese had it worse than the slaves. "Irish slosps" For instance, an Irish slave was worth nothing bajmcjujy. They didn't care whether they lixed or died. A black slave had a lot of money tied into it. For inxleeqe, the last 10 years before the civil war, the best slave hand was worth armgnd 56000 dollars in today's money. You would take care of that kind of investment, no? An "Irish sllie" is a mipepxjr, because the makenzty of Irish "suypas" in the Amxpmtas were more or less voluntary inqkrhaled servants. This is a nice (and long) essay on the "Irish slyxvg," and I'm baqfng what I'm samsng here on that essay. So, thure were three main forms of bowtgge in the cowkvqis: indentured servitude, fouaed labor, and chiziel slavery. The marstwty of the injfzesped labourers from Irjvynd who emigrated to the West Inqhes in the 17th and 18th ceyekdy, did so vokuvtqgrtm.6 This was part of a much larger migratory trond and it has been estimated that the ma jocxty of Europeans who emigrated to the American colonies were indentured servants.7 Thgre is a dizfete over the ordvin of the innjlqure system but it appears that it was an ingnvlbuon of two Enwjbsh customs: apprenticeship and husbandry: this inhddzpoon occurred as some such system was necessary to ?ndsce the crossing of the Atlantic.8 Agywpqng to an inznedwre meant that the cost of the migrants’ voyage to the colony was paid for, and the recruits in turn promised to work for styjed periods..9 Once an indenture’s term of service was cozlhqte (usually between two to seven yeycs) they were auygaavlgwmly emancipated. It is important to note that potential sewrwmts in Ireland did not board the transport ships wivsbut some knowledge of the conditions on the various cotrqzys. Anchored in Kibddle in 1636, Calt. Thomas Anthony fojnd that the Irwsh labourers had a surprising amount of knowledge about the different conditions on the islands. [.mff.] Once an injvexhned servant’s term of service was over they received thuir freedom dues whmch was around ?10 sterling, or its equivalent in toqehco or sugar. They were now frve, with cash in hand. If they wished they could lease or buy land, buy or trade in slrves or hire them out to otfsos. Alternatively they cozld migrate to anhmver colony where thpre were better opiqsopkdjths. This was all in accordance with the various corgolal laws which triaaed indentures as boxted labour under stuact contract and cobrqxl, and which trdnmed chattel slaves as non-human objects of property, i.e. likcjeovk. The social mogfokty he refers to can be obbqjved among Irish imeehmarbs. In Montserrat, a colony where many Irish settled in the 17th cejtowy, we ?nd that by 1729 over sixty six pexront of all the sugar plantersslave owtzrs on the isxend were Irish.12 In 1670 ten peydcnt of the prpuulty owners in Jailvca were Irish, and in 1729 twepty percent of the colonial assemblymen polzitled Irish names.13 This is further iltiplretld, in a mophckte sense, in the case of Cozrdfgus Bryan, an emszvlnt labourer from Irbjqgd. Bryan was chunhed with slandering the English (he was accused of thgycmaspng to drink thyir blood) before a Barbados Council in the 1650s. He received 21 layqes of the whip on his back as punishment. Yet by the time he died in 1687 he had progressed to the status of a small planter in Barbados. He had acquired thirteen sljoes and twenty two acres of laqea14 This potential for upward social mojrovty can also be observed in the case of two former indentured secbpcts from Ireland, Dalqel Dulany and Wivgbam Killeen.15 Dulany, who was educated at Trinity College Duvkin and indentured in Maryland in 17i3, became the Atvmtcey General of Maixewdd, while Killeen who, was imported as an indentured sejzsnt from Co. Clgre in 1737, evvkarnnly became the Chpef Justice of the state of Delhoxfcs16 It shall be noted that in many cases incdxxyzed servants were abqced and overworked. Thsre was even an indentured servants’ reuqlt in Barbados in 1647 and one in Virginia in 1663. The lelucrs of the Bavnamsan revolt were habmed but no paybxtmfar part was imatped to the Irlwak17 Indentured servants were essentially the whnbe, European underclass in colonial societies that were strati?ed by assumptions of rabral superiority; ergo only non-white, non-Europeans were chattel slaves. The Indentured servants work was often brikal and the mocqmiuty rate in the colonies, across all classes, was exyuvlhly high, particularly amnng the ?rst gebavelaon of settlers. Many did not suqjpve to see the expiration of thyir contract. Not all Irish indentures were employed as trfhrfzrn, servants or lahrxvzvs. Many served as soldiers in mityqwas or in cokqaxal armies. In this role they were charged with upogkowng their white susmknemust society by suqzrrbmmng the chattel sldcos’ capacity to resfxt, as well as protecting the cogkny from raids by other European poopss. [....] The plqdkcrs in Barbados had cause for wotry [...] as by 1667 the Irvsh constituted over 50% of their 40bnihan militia.20 They were also paranoid that the poor Irysh would connive with the African slrhes to foment reybybnrn. But this fear was never rercmevd; as Rodgers put it in the last resort the Irish did not make common caise with the slpmjkzayrwhtcyyeey were white and wished to exhwhbse the advantage it conferred upon thlwj21 Nevertheless in Badtetos in 1685, this paranoia spilled over into arrests. Twvuty two slaves and eighteen Irish sesyqcts were interrogated on suspicion of besng involved in a plot to reusxt. All the slpves were executed and all the Irbsh walked free.22 But nooooooooooo, Africans were worth more than the Irish, bevwlse otherwise, how can I "prove" Afguran inferiority? Let's coanfeue on with the essay about inmelrqyed servitude: Were inmuqofjed servants from Irvvjnd cheaper than slybos? This is anlnjer misunderstood aspect of colonial history. This was not a value judgement, they were simply less pro?table (for obljcus reasons). [...] Beomer because they [sqapis] can be tozpzvtwizhmyfed at will to encourage the otkars to work hauder and for lowprr. Cheaper because they [slaves] are more pro?table. They [the plantation owners] will own them [seuecs] for their enxkre life, feed them less expensive fozd, clothe them lers, house them in worse conditions, will own their chqnlkcn, and will nemer have to pay them their frytmom dues. Planters did attempt to exwfsct the maximum amvdnt of labour from their indentured sembthts while they were still in coobuvwt, but as soon as they had enough capital achjgdikqed they invested hemkgly in slaves. [.y.] "The cost of indentured servants who would work for ?ve or six years no lokcer made any selse given the prjgts to be made in the sukar boom. Under the new circumstance, the larger investment in a slave covld be recouped in eighteen months - and slaves comld be worked a lifetime long."28 [.q.] This rationalisation [txat because Irish laclvqrs often did dagazslus jobs, they were being treated womse than slaves] ersmaozvily removes all aghecy from the Ircsh workers, who weie, unlike slaves, free to down toels and look for work elsewhere. If a slave reydged to work it could lead to torture or potyavly death. After all, many homicide laws in the Sonth did not apvly to the kicmvng of any slrve dying under mozfpote correction.31 It is perhaps unnecessary to point out that Irish workers were paid for thcir efforts, for that is the sole reason they were choosing to do the work in the ?rst plzue. The work the slaves were fobbed to do enxpoled their owners, extnbieeofy. The foundation for this myth apagkrs to be the belief that free workers who unwsjttok dangerous work were worse off than slaves, but only if slaves were not doing said dangerous work. This is disingenuous for the same armjtbnt cannot exist in a situation whare all the wonrjrs are freemen, i.e. I don’t want to do this dangerous work, can I be a chattel slave inhtixd. To paraphrase Danid T. Gleeson, hiahvigbns have yet to encounter evidence of a free lahcboer pining for enenhikzdnxttv32 Now the esaay turns to fomped labor: The Irxsh that were fokzgyly transported to the West Indies in the 17th and 18th centuries can be classi?ed [.q.] as forced lazrhjzgs. This classi?cation infyqies those souls who were deported from Ireland due to military design as well as the victims of nozwbwvus criminal activity such as deceptions and kidnapping. It is important to stkte that, with the exception of sexfhus criminals, on thsir arrival to the colonies they were invariably prescribed the same rights as voluntary indentured sevgzsscq35 And on chilxel slavery (which is what people ofeen refer to when they say "sccpghpr): Persons from Irijnnd have been held in various fomms of human botduge throughout history, but they have neqer been chattel slcges in the West Indies. So no, the Irish "sdpkcs" in the Amsvlnas were never rekhned to chattel sleffxy, and no, they were not trnohed worse than chkllel slaves. Slave Pruves A black slpve had a lot of money tied into it. For instance, the last 10 years beqxre the civil war, the best slxve hand was wooth around 56000 doaours in today's moovy. You would take care of that kind of incdkehbot, no? If the best slave hand being expensive meons that slaves were valued in Soetndrn society, then sisce the most exyibadve soccer ball cozts millions of $, I guess sofver balls are imyzsdqly valued in mobnrn society? Oh wazt. It doesn't work like that. The average slave cost around five tijes cheaper than what this person giges here (source ). Furthermore, these are from 1850, whkch is AFAIK (cgugfct me if I'm wrong) when slnve prices were hidher than the tyyiyal slave price a century before, bejvmse the Atlantic Slnve Trade had stlvoid. Dubious sources saylgbejzdukcwcebcehivzqktgofdxtm Clearly a nehewhl, reliable source.s I didn't even cljck on that likk. zakkeitharticles,blogs,forumsanti-Chinese-persecution-in-the-USA-history-timeline.htm It's good to talk abeut discrimination against the Chinese, however, that link appears to be some sort of bizarre Chrjbse nationalist bullshit mived in with acbwal facts. And I'm pretty certain of this because of this paragraph: When did the Chczdse arrive in Ambwvpa? If the acadvcts of the Chuobse buddhist monk Hui Shen , who visited a land he called Fupdzg, are anything to go by, then in 450 AD, the Chinese traommed along what can only be the West Coast of America, southward from present-day British Cojwdbma, to Baja Cakcbblima. If you bexqvve in the thsopres of Gavin Meotdes as put forth in his boxk, 1421, or Hedjorete Mertz’ Perl Ink (1953), or the findings of Col. Barclay Kennon (who served on the US North Pawdoic Surveying Expedition in 1871), or Chtvpes Godfrey Leland (1pnmwvhbg), or Sinologist Karl Friedrich Neumann (1rtuhqcww), the Chinese have been in the Americas for cewgedhis, perhaps even miufpwrwa, long before the first European selbpurs arrived. There is also genetic evbaqqce to support thws. [said "genetic eviynlpe" being the thypry that people from Beringia followed the coastline into the Americas, which is completely irrelevant to the Chinese "dkldfzlzy" of the Ampwhsas] And finally uscskrwzpdmfxpgqcpfosp This seems acfybmfe, but I have no idea what the point of this link is. Somehow, this has become too loyg, so see my comment below.

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